dinsdag 5 november 2013

IS THE RAPTURE IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3?




IS THE RAPTURE IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3?
Tom's Perspectives
by Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes
first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
—2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the
rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek
noun apostasia, usually translated “apostasy,” is a reference to the rapture and should be
translated “departure.” Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord
will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical
departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

THE MEANING OF APOSTASIA



The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2
Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you
are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia)Moses.” The
word is a Greek compound of apo “ from” and istemi “stand.” Thus, it has the core
meaning of “away from” or “departure.” The Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon defines
apostasia first as “defection, revolt;” then secondly as “departure, disappearance.”1
Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports
the basic meaning of departure in the following:

The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny
that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun
is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses
(Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily
determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these
fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke
8;13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2
Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men(1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from
the body (2 Cor. 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13).2

“It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the
original languages,” concludes Daniel Davey, “that the word meaning of apostasia is
defined as departure.”3 Paul Lee Tan adds the following:
What precisely does Paul mean when he says that “the falling away” (2:3)
must come before the tribulation? The definite article “the” denotes that this
will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of
Sin. The Greek word for “falling away”, taken by itself, does not mean
religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean “to fall,” as the
Greeks have another word for that. [pipto, I fall; TDI] The best translation of
the word is “to depart.” The apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which
he calls “the departure,” and which will occur just before the start of the
tribulation. This is the rapture of the church.4

- 2 -
So the word has the core meaning of departure and it depends upon the context to
determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such
as departure from the faith.

TRANSLATION HISTORY
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either
“departure” or “departing.” They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible
(1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible
(1583); Geneva Bible (1608).5 This supports the notion that the word truly means
“departure.” In fact, Jerome’s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the
time of A.D. 400 renders apostasia with the “word discessio, meaning ‘departure.’”6 Why
was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of
“departure”?
Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a
new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James
Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as “falling away.”
Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating
apostasia as “departure.” No good reason was ever given.

THE USE OF THE ARTICLE

It is important to note that Paul uses a definite article with the noun apostasia. What
does this mean? Davey notes the following:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun
definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article reference is being
made to something in particular. In II Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is
prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a
particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.7

Dr. Lewis provides a likely answer when he notes that the definite article serves to
make a word distinct and draw attention to it. In this instance he believes that its
purpose is “to denote a previous reference.” “The departure Paul previously referred to
was ‘our being gathered to him’ (v. 1) and our being ‘caught up’ with the Lord and the
raptured dead in the clouds (1 Thess. 4:17),” notes Dr. Lewis.8 The “departure” was
something that Paul and his readers clearly had a mutual understanding about. Paul
says in verse 5, “Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you
these things?”
The use of the definite article would also support the notion that Paul spoke of a
clear, discernable event. A physical departure, like the rapture would fit just such a
notion. However, the New Testament teaches that apostasy had already arrived in the
first century (cf. Acts 20:27–32; 1 Tim. 4:1–5; 2 Tim. 3:1–9; 2 Pet. 2:1–3; Jude 3–4, 17–21)
and thus, such a process would not denote a clear event as demanded by the language
of this passage. Understanding departure as the rapture would satisfy the nuance of
this text. E. Schuyler English explains as follows:

Again, how would the Thessalonians, or Christians in any century since, be
qualified to recognize the apostasy when it should come, assuming, simply
for the sake of this inquiry, that the Church might be on earth when it does
come? There has been apostasy from God, rebellion against Him, since time

- 3 -
began.9
Whatever Paul is referring to in his reference to “the departure,” was something that
both the Thessalonian believers and he had discussed in-depth previously. When we
examine Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, he never mentions the doctrine of
apostasy, however, virtually every chapter in that epistle speaks of the rapture (cf.
1:9–10; 2:19; probably 3:13; 4:13–17; 5:1–11). In these passages, Paul has used a variety
of Greek terms to describe the rapture. It should not be surprising that he uses another
term to reference the rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Dr. House tells us:

Remember, the Thessalonians had been led astray by the false teaching
(2:2–3) that the Day of the Lord had already come. This was confusing
because Paul offered great hope, in the first letter, of a departure to be with
Christ and a rescue from god’s wrath. Now a letter purporting to be from
Paul seems to say that they would first have to go through the Day of the
Lord. Paul then clarified his prior teaching by emphasizing that they had no
need to worry. They could again be comforted because the departure he had
discussed in his first letter, and in his teaching while with them, was still the
truth. The departure of Christians to be with Christ, and the subsequent
revelation of the lawless one, Paul argues, is proof that the Day of the Lord
had not begun as they had thought. This understanding of apostasia makes
much more sense than the view that they are to be comforted (v. 2) because a
defection from the faith must precede the Day of the Lord. The entire second
chapter (as well as 1 Thessalonians 4:18; 5:11) serves to comfort (see vv. 2, 3,
17), supplied by a reassurance of Christ’s coming as taught in his first letter.10

DEPARTURE AND THE RESTRAINER
Since pretribulationists believe that the restrainer mentioned in verses 6 and 7 is the
Holy Spirit and teaches a pre-trib rapture, then it should not be surprising to see that
there is a similar progression of thought in the progression of verse 3. Allan MacRae,
president of Faith Theological Seminary in a letter to Schuyler English has said the
following concerning this matter:

I wonder if you have noticed the striking parallel between this verse and
verses 7–8, a little further down. According to your suggestion verse 3
mentions the departure of the church as coming first, and then tells of the
revealing of the man of sin. In verses 7 and 8 we find the identical sequence.
Verse 7 tells of the removal of the Church; verse 8 says: “And then shall that
Wicked be revealed.” Thus close examination of the passage shows an inner
unity and coherence, if we take the word apostasia in its general sense of
“departure,” while a superficial examination would easily lead to an
erroneous interpretation as “falling away” because of the proximity of the
mention of the man of sin.11

Kenneth Wuest, a Greek scholar from Moody Bible Institute added the following
contextual support to taking apostasia as a physical departure:
But then hee apostasia of which Paul is speaking, precedes the revelation of
Antichrist in his true identity, and is to katechon that which holds back his

- 4 -
revelation (2:6). The hee apostasia, therefore, cannot be either a general
apostasy in Christendom which does precede the coming of Antichrist, nor
can it be the particular apostasy which is the result of his activities in making
himself the alone object of worship. Furthermore, that which holds back his
revelation (vs. 3) is vitally connected with hoo katechoon (vs. 7), He who holds
back the same event. The latter is, in my opinion, the Holy Spirit and His
activities in the Church. All of which means that I am driven to the
inescapable conclusion that the hee apostasia (vs. 3) refers to the Rapture of the
Church which precedes the Day of the Lord, and holds back the revelation of
the Man of Sin who ushers in the world-aspect of that period.12

CONCLUSION
The fact that apostasia most likely has the meaning of physical departure is a clear
support for pretribulationism. If this is true, (Dr. Tim LaHaye and I believe that it is),
then it means that a clear prophetic sequence is laid out by Paul early in his Apostolic
ministry. Paul teaches in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the rapture will occur first, before the
Day of the Lord commences. It is not until after the beginning of the Day of the Lord
that the Antichrist is released, resulting in the events described by him in chapter 2 of 2
Thessalonians. This is the only interpretation that provides hope for a discomforted
people. Maranatha!


ENDNOTES
__________________________________
1 Henry George Liddell and Henry Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, Revised with a Supplement [1968] by Sir
Henry Stuart Jones and Roderick McKenzie (Oxford, Eng.: Oxford University Press, 1940), p. 218.
2 Gordon R. Lewis, “Biblical Evidence for Pretribulationism,” Bibliotheca Sacra (vol. 125, no. 499; July
1968), p. 218.
3 Daniel K. Davey, “The ‘Apostesia’ of II Thessalonians 2:3,” Th.M. thesis, Detroit Baptist Theological
Seminary, May 1982, p. 27.
4 Paul Lee Tan, The Interpretation of Prophecy (Winona Lake, IN: Assurance Publishers, 1974), p. 341.
5 H. Wayne House, “Apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3: Apostasy or Rapture?” in Thomas Ice and Timothy
Demy, eds., When the Trumpet Sounds: Today’s Foremost Authorities Speak Out on End-Time Controversies
(Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 1995), p. 270.
6 House, “Apostesia”, p. 270.
7 Davey, “Apostesia”, p. 47.
8 Gordon R. Lewis & Bruce A. Demarest, Integrative Theology 3 vols in 1 (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1996),
vol. 3, p. 420.
9 E. Schuyler English, Re-Thinking the Rapture (Neptune, NJ: Loizeaux Brothers, 1954), p. 70.
10 House, “Apostesia”, pp. 275–76.
11 Allan A. MacRae, Letter to E. Schuyler English, published in “Let the Prophets Speak,” Our Hope, (vol.
LVI, num. 12; June 1950), p. 725.
12 Kenneth S. Wuest, Letter to E. Schuyler English, published in “Let the Prophets Speak,” Our Hope, (vol.
LVI, num. 12; June 1950), p. 731.

Source...


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Is the Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3? Thomas Ice - Pre-Trib.org

 

Published on Nov 3, 2012
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Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
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This is a response to:

 

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture DESTROYED in SEVEN WORDS! 







Hans S click


The WRONG translation:

King James Version (1611)

2 Thessalonians 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

The RIGHT translation:

World English Bible 2002

2 Thessalonians 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except the departure comes first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

The DEPARTURE = the RAPTURE!
· in reply to RevelationTwelve11



RevelationTwelve11

The word in question is Strong's G646:

ἀποστασία

apostasia

ap-os-tas-ee'-ah

"Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”): - falling away, forsake."

Notice that "departure" is NOT a definition for this word. It means a DEFECTION FROM TRUTH, FALLING AWAY, FORSAKE. Therefore, it has NOTHING to do with the rapture...so do not be deceived. There's no rapture until AFTER the tribulation.
· in reply to Hans S

 


13 opmerkingen:

  1. SheaSheaOnUrTUBE


    Are you ready for the return of Jesus? Will He come as your Blessed Hope or your Holy Terror? It will be one or the other, for God is determined to deal with sin, and He does so with either grace or wrath (John 3:36). If you have put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Savior, then you are under God's grace. Your sins have been forgiven and forgotten, and you can look forward with confidence to that glorious day when Jesus will appear in the heavens. But if you have never received Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you are under the wrath of God, and you have nothing to look forward to except the terror of His wrath. If you have never known the power of God's love, then maybe it's because you have never asked to know it (God's love) or him (God). I mean really asked, once you do be expecting an answer Beloveds. AMEN<3
    Reply

    Hans S


    Source; http://www.lamblion.com/articles/articles_signs11.php

    BeantwoordenVerwijderen
  2. Good message, Alan, but:

    The WRONG translation:

    King James Version (1611)

    2 Thessalonians 2:

    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

    The RIGHT translation:

    World English Bible 2002

    2 Thessalonians 2:

    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except the departure comes first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

    The DEPARTURE = the RAPTURE!

    http://ezekiel38rapture.blogspot.nl/2013/11/is-rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23.html

    BeantwoordenVerwijderen
  3. You used a VERY WRONG translation of 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3
    The WRONG translation:

    King James Version (1611)

    2 Thessalonians 2:

    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

    The RIGHT translation:

    World English Bible 2002

    2 Thessalonians 2:

    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except the departure comes first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

    The DEPARTURE = the RAPTURE!

    http://ezekiel38rapture.blogspot.nl/2013/11/is-rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23.html

    BeantwoordenVerwijderen
  4. Satan says: 'I've invented the pre-tribulation rapture centuries ago through my Jesuit 'friends', so that the believers wouldn't focus on the Pope and the Papacy, as being the Antichrist, but on a 'man of mystery' who will emerge 'out of nowhere', so that when the rapture doesn't come, those believers will be deceived and become depressed and will give up, after which it will be a piece of cake for me to destroy these pathetic fools'.

    BUT SATAN IS A LIAR!

    SATAN HATES THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE!

    SATAN HATED THE FACT THAT GOD TOOK ENOCH AWAY!

    Only those will be raptured who REALLY love JESUS!

    The BROKEN HEARTED long to be where JESUS is!

    Those who love this world like to stick around.

    IS THE RAPTURE IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3?
    http://ezekiel38rapture.blogspot.nl/2013/11/is-rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23.html

    BeantwoordenVerwijderen

  5. The Jewish people NEVER CEASED to be God's chosen people!
    http://ezekiel38rapture.blogspot.nl/2014/04/the-jewish-people-never-ceased-to-be.html
    Hans S
    9:16 PM




    The pre-tribulation rapture of the Body of Christ is NOT the second coming!
    Rapture under attack!
    http://ezekiel38rapture.blogspot.nl/2012/02/rapture-under-attack.html

    THE BODY OF CHRIST IS NOT APPOINTED TO GOD'S WRATH.

    THEY DON'T HAVE TO EARN SALVATION BY GETTING THEIR HEADS CHOPPED OFF.
    Hans S
    9:17 PM




    JESUS is NOT a WIFE-BEATER!
    Hans S
    9:20 PM




    ALL ROADS LEAD to GOD-JESUS: HE'S in control and Satan is allowed by GOD to act according to Satan's evil mind.
    God is USING him!

    God wants to determine who are on His side and who are on the devil's side.

    BeantwoordenVerwijderen
  6. +Dennis Bolan
    The pre-tribulation rapture is in the Bible!


    http://ezekiel38rapture.blogspot.nl/2013/11/is-rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23.html

    BeantwoordenVerwijderen
  7. +Alecjr Peabody It's AMAZING how BRAINWASHED many "Christians" are.
    First off: I'm not a 'Christian', but a follower of JESUS, being an ex-atheist who never wanted to be a 'Christian' in the first place.
    I'm not created and saved by 'Christians' or 'Christianity', but by JESUS Himself, who happens to be God.

    SEVEN English translations of the New Testament, prior to the King James Version 1611, translated the Greek word 'apostasia' correctly into 'DEPARTURE' and NOT into 'apostasy', or 'a falling away', which is plain STUPID.
    The King James 1611 is a GOOD translation, but King James didn't believe in the rapture, so he obviously ordered to change the translation.
    This man was absolutely NOT a born again follower of JESUS Christ and he also was a HOMOSEXUAL.
    Thanks to God the King James 1611 is overall a good translation, but the CRIMINAL change in translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 PROVES that it's not infallible.
    I'm Dutch and ALL Dutch translations are WRONG concerning 2 Thessalonians 2:3, which proves that the translators had NO good understanding of the meaning of the Greek word 'apostasia', but this also goes for the German and French translations.
    It's really UNIQUE that SEVEN (I repeat: 7) English translations, prior to the King James 1611 had translated 'apostasia' correctly into 'departure'

    Now, some people say that even with the word 'departure' it's about 'a departure from faith', but that's NOT what 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is about.

    Do you really think that God=JESUS wants us to worry about so called 'Christians' (church goers) who become apostates?

    They (aren't) weren't BORN AGAIN followers of JESUS in the first place!

    They are people who are being misled (by the Roman Catholic CULT (which is also the 'mother' of most Protestant churches) through the STUPID NOTION that following JESUS has anything to do with going to a 'church'.

    JESUS never started a 'church' but the Body of Christ and the word 'church' is NOWHERE to be found in the original Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, because it's a ROMAN CATHOLIC WORD!

    BeantwoordenVerwijderen
  8. The right word is assembly, and this can be a small GATHERING of believers or a large one, and it can be at HOME or in a building with more space, or even out in the open, when the weather is fine.

    The Roman Catholic CULT wants you to worry about so called 'Christians' and it doesn't want you to look forward to the 'blessed hope', which is the pre-times of trouble for Jacob=Israel-rapture, often very MISLEADING called 'the pre-tribulation-rapture', because the prophetic word is about ISRAEL and not about 'the church'.

    JESUS is a JEW and He's coming back to HIS country and HIS people, and He's going to save a THIRD thereof.

    SEVEN years prior to His second coming He'll take away the Holy Spirit, INCLUDING the true BORN AGAIN followers, both deceased and alive, and this is the DEPARTURE, aka the RAPTURE.

    After this the last year week of the 70 year weeks of Daniel 9 will be fulfilled, which has NOTHING to do with the Body of Christ.

    I've checked out your channel and I saw you standing before a 'Christmas tree'.
    I'm not condemning you, because I've been a stupid 'Christmas' celebrater myself, but learn more about this EVIL ROMAN Catholic 'Christ-MASS': http://ezekiel38rapture.blogspot.nl/search/label/X-mas

    PS: you call me a 'buddy' and I don't want to act big, but I'm 55 and you seem to be quite young.

    Within the Body of Christ we call each other brothers and sisters or brethren.

    The other day I had a good conversation through Skype with a brother of 16, who's living in CA.
    He treated me with respect and vice versa.
    Hans S
    9:22 AM




    +Alecjr Peabody IS THE RAPTURE IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3? http://ezekiel38ra

    BeantwoordenVerwijderen
  9. +Joyce Ben "Do you think maybe it is a misnomer? If someone studies prophecy is it possible to be a post trib believer?'

    Yes, this is possible if one has been deceived by the Roman Catholic replacement theology, which says that the 'church' has replaced the Jews as God's chosen people.
    This is an invention of SATAN!
    Satan HATES the JEWS, meaning he wants to MURDER them ALL!

    If there are no more Jews left, than JESUS the JEW will have no more people He can rescue....

    Satan is an IDIOT!

    Another reason is also a ROMAN CATHOLIC LIE: the SATANIC Jesuits made Alberto Rivera (the ex-Jesuit Priest who became a born again follower of JESUS) believe that the pre-Times of Jacob's Trouble-rapture was concocted by them and they called it 'Futurism'.

    BUT THE JESUITS ARE ROTTEN LIARS!

    Alberto Rivera has revealed VERY IMPORTANT things about the Jesuits, the Vatican and more, but at this crucial point he was DECEIVED!

    The teaching of the pre-Times of Jacob's Trouble-rapture is as old as the Body of Christ, and SEVEN English translations, prior to the release of KJV (which is a good translation, but not infallible) in 1611 contained the RIGHT translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:3, which was ALTERED in the KJV.

    This became also a cause for a lot of CONFUSION!

    Devil means 'confuser'!

    But this is the RIGHT translation and the pre-Times of Jacob's Trouble-rapture is in the New Testament, but Satan HATES it!!!: http://ezekiel38rapture.blogspot.nl/2013/11/is-rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23.html

    BeantwoordenVerwijderen
  10. +Jim Beckwith
    SEVEN English translations were RIGHT concerning 2 Thessalonians 2:3, prior to the release of the KJV 1611, and they translated the Greek word 'apostasia' correctly into DEPARTURE.


    Then came the King James Version 1611, which is a GOOD translation, but NOT infallible, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3 testifies of this, because it CRAZY to translate 'apostasia' into 'a falling away'.

    THERE IS NO FALLING AWAY!

    ABSOLUTELY NONSENSE!

    Every Dutch translation I know is also WRONG on this issue.

    But thank God, there are still translations which translated 'apostasia' correct into DEPARTURE.

    REAL, Holy Spirit filled believers in JESUS do not fall away from faith, but that's not what it's about: some SINISTER translator DARED (for money?) to change the meaning if 'apostasia' into 'a falling away'.

    WHY?

    Because King James didn't believe in the (pre-Times of Jacob's Trouble) rapture!

    MILLIONS of people have been MISLED by this WRONG translation and many STUPID and ANGRY discussions were being fought over it and are still continuing because of this CRIME!

    But thanks to God I discovered the World English Bible translation, which is also NOT infallible, but it was right concerning the word 'apostasia' and that it should be translated into DEPARTURE. http://www.biblija.net/biblija.cgi?Bible=Bible&m=2+Th+2%3A3&id14=1&id7=1&pos=0&set=3&l=en

    I mean: it's so CLEAR that the DEPARTURE refers to the RAPTURE!

    But Satan LOVES to RAPE the word of God and so some STUPID, CORRUPT translator changed it into 'a falling away'!!

    Why?

    Because Satan HATES the pre-Times of Jacob's Trouble-rapture, because he wants to SLAUGHTER ALL the believers in JESUS Christ, or at least he's satisfied when real believers in JESUS are CONFUSED on this issue, and devil means 'confuser'.

    He also knows that there are people who can't imagine that even the KJV isn't infallible, so this will remain a HOT ISSUE between REAL believers in JESUS and he's standing by and laughing his socks off, when believers in JESUS dislike each other because of it.

    But I'm convinced that the right translation of 'apostasia' is in English the word DEPARTURE.

    First comes the DEPARTURE=the RAPTURE and then the rest of the prophetic program will be unfold.

    Satan knows he has to wait for the rapture to happen, and it makes him MAD of ANGER, because he's dependent on God-JESUS, who's the ONLY one who knows EXACTLY WHEN this MIRACLE will happen.

    IS THE RAPTURE IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3?
    http://ezekiel38rapture.blogspot.nl/2013/11/is-rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23.html

    BeantwoordenVerwijderen
  11. +jennifer siagian
    The right word is in fact DEPARTURE:


    IS THE RAPTURE IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3?
    http://ezekiel38rapture.blogspot.nl/2013/11/is-rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23.html?showComment=1433721101057

    We don't agree on this unfortunately....

    How could Satan rob me of anything?

    I'm DEAD without JESUS! http://ezekiel38rapture.blogspot.nl/2015/06/dead-without-jesus.html

    And even if Satan could rob me of anything, then God=JESUS would ALLOW it to happen.


    JESUS and NOT Satan has FULL control!

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