vrijdag 15 april 2016

Why the Body of Christ could not have begun at Pentecost

 I don't like the word 'church', because I'm an EX-ATHEIST who NEVER went to CHURCHES that always make a lot of NOISE on SUNdays through those CHURCH BELLS in the morning, except ONCE when I attended a Protestant kindergarten during that time, and this church BUILDING was adjacent and attached to this school.

I was amazed by the interior, because I had never before set foot inside of such a building, and when we had to pray, I kept my eyes open and I was amazed by the others who bowed down their heads and closed their eyes, at the command of the pastor, and even back then I looked at them as if they came from another strange world, and I was only 5 or 6 years old.

'If God wants me to be like this, then I'm glad my dad is an ATHEIST', could have been another thought of me during that time, but I was still a child and not yet that CYNICAL.

I attended this Protestant kindergarten because it was the closest kindergarten to home, and because my mother was and still is a Catholic, who in fact rebelled against her atheist husband, who was more at sea than at home, earning good and honest money as a ships engineer all over the world, because he didn't want his children to become religious 'morons'.

So 'thanks' to this Protestant CHURCH I began my life with a strong aversion against CHURCHES and CHRISTIANITY, and the CHRISTIANS in my neighborhood never made me enthusiastic about being a believer in JESUS and the Bible.....on the contrary.

Only ONE person made me enthusiastic about JESUS and the Bible: a pretty teacher I had at that kindergarten during one school season, because she could read so well aloud from the children's Bible, and thanks to her God-the Lord JESUS became REAL to me, for the first time in my life, even though it lasted only shortly, because my Catholic mother didn't know much from the Bible, so she wasn't able to support my new found faith, and my four siblings didn't have this spiritual experience during their time at this kindergarten, and of course due to my atheist dad, who's now a KNOWER of God-the Lord JESUS, because he died in 1985 and ALL atheists become God-the Lord JESUS-knowers, whether they like it or not...but will it be in heaven or hell?

Our JEWISH neighbors were strange people too, even though they weren't religious, but somehow they intrigued me more than the christian people in my neighborhood, because they were so MYSTERIOUS and this was enhanced when they moved when I was 7 years old in 1967 and in that same year the JEWS WON the SIX-DAY WAR in a SPECTACULAR WAY, and I grew up in a country that had been occupied for five years by the (Roman Catholic) NAZIS during 1940-1945, during which about 103.000 Jewish inhabitants of my country were MURDERED and in fact sacrificed to SATAN.

Nowadays I know that JESUS the JEW NEVER intended to be represented by such religious organizations which are the OFFSPRING of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, because PROTESTantism is in fact PSEUDO-CATHOLICISM and a movement WITHIN the so called  'MOTHER CHURCH' AGAINST the POPE of ROME, which started with Martin Luther, who NEVER REALLY broke FREE from the influence of this COUNTEREIT of the REAL MYSTERIOUS BODY of CHRIST.

Having said that: I AGREE with the following information:

Why the church (the body of Christ) could not have begun at Pentecost
by B.C. Pratt 


  1. A brand new unity of believing Jews and Gentiles as equals The Jew lost his advantage (preeminence); the Gentile lost his disadvantage (Deut. 7:6) (Rom. 10:12) (Gal. 3:28)
  2. Never prophesied, a Mystery (secret), "hid in God" (Rom. 16:25) (Eph. 3:5,9)
  3. A new sphere of blessing; new promises (Eph. 1:3)
  4. Salvation BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH WITHOUT WORKS (Rom. 4:5) (Eph. 2:8,9)
  5. Truth revealed to Paul by the glorified, ascended Lord (Eph. 3:3) (Tit. 1:3)
  6. Baptism by the Holy Spirit into one Body (I Cor. 12:13)
  7. Christ is not King, but Head of the Body of Christ. (Col. 1:18)


  1. Believers were added to something already existing. (Matt. 18:17) (Acts 2:47)
  2. Pentecost, one of the seven feast days of Israel, was "fully come." (Acts 2:1)
  3. Peter addressed the Jews. (Acts 2:14. 22. 36; 3:25.26; 4:10)
  4. These were THE LAST DAYS according to prophecy, not the first days of something new. "This is that." (Joel 2:28,29) (Acts 2:16) "All the prophets since Samuel...have foretold of these days." (Acts 3:24) What "was spoken by all the holy prophets since the world began" ( Acts 3:21) must be different from what was "kept secret since the world began." (Rom. 16:25)
  5. Filled with the Holy Spirit, Peter spoke of prophesied promises to Israel: that Christ was raised to sit on His throne (Acts 2:30) and "to give repentance to Israel." (Acts 5:31) (Question: why not to the Gentiles also?)
  6. The ministry of John the Baptist and of Christ is continued. "Wonders and signs were done by the Apostles" as in the Gospel records. (Acts 2:43) "They continued daily with one accord in the Temple, (Acts 2:46) "Repent ye, therefore, and be converted that your sins may be blotted out." (Acts 3:19)
  7. The view of the Millennial Kingdom is in sight. (Acts 3:19-21)
  8. Israel is still the "untoward generation." (Matt. 23:37) (Acts 2:40)
  9. The Apostles baptized with water and the believers received supernatural power to do miracles and wonder


  1. No mention of the Body of Christ
  2. No mention of Gentiles now being presented or accepted as equals
  3. No mention of something new
  4. No mention of a baptism by the Spirit
  5. No mention of justification by faith alone nor of redemption through the shed blood of Christ
  6. No mention of no longer being under the Law. In fact, they continued "preaching to none but the Jews only" and being "zealous of the Law." (Acts 11:19) (Acts 21:20)


  1. The Greek word "ecclesia" which is translated "church," does not automatically mean the Body of Christ, There are three distinct 'churches' mentioned in the Scriptures, (Acts 7:38) (Matt. 18:17) (Eph. 1:22,23)
  2. In Joel's prophecy there is no reference to Gentiles.
  3. At Pentecost, Israel had not been set aside (alienated) so how could they be reconciled with the Gentiles into one Body?. (Eph. 2:15,16)
  4. At Pentecost, the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit resulted from water baptism. (Acts 2:28) Is that how we receive the Spirit today?
  5. Provisions were made for the Church, the Body of Christ, by the cross (Eph. 2:16) but did not take effect until "due time" when revealed to the apostle Paul. (I Tim. 2:6,7)


  1. If the Church, the Body of Christ, started at Pentecost, why was the Kingdom still offered in Acts 3:19-21)?
  2. Can we today "continue steadfastly" in the Apostles' doctrine? (Acts 2:42-46) (Acts 4:32-35) (Acts 5:12-16)
  3. When did Peter understand the doctrine of Grace that Paul taught? (II Pet. 3:15,16)
  4. Why did Peter charge his hearers with the murder of their Messiah? (Acts 2:23) Why did he not rejoice as do members of the Body in what Christ accomplished by the cross? (Gal. 6:14)
  5. Why was Peter still unprepared when commanded to go to the house of a Gentile as late as Acts 10? Why were the Judean brethren surprised to hear that God had granted repentance ALSO to the Gentiles? (Acts 10:28) (Acts 11:18)
  6. If the Body of Christ began at Pentecost, why was the Word still preached by the Jews "to none but the Jews only" (Acts 11:19) and why were the Jews still "zealous of the Law" as late as Acts 21:20)?
  7. Why would Christ have taught Kingdom truth for forty days preceding His ascension and then ten days later abruptly begin the Body of Christ without having trained the apostles in the new program?
  8. Why is no Gentile mentioned until Cornelius in Acts 10?
  9. How could Paul, years after Pentecost, say he had "laid the foundation" of the building (I Cor. 3;10) (Eph. 2:19,20) if it had begun at Pentecost?
  10. How could the Body of Christ begin before the one to whom it was revealed was saved? ("In me first...for a pattern" - I Tim 1:16)
  11. Is not Pentecost thoroughly Jewish in doctrine, Peter's preaching being verified and validated by supernatural manifestations?
  12. Is there one proof verse that refers or alludes to the beginning of the Church at Pentecost? Is there more than an assumption?
If the Church, the Body of Christ, did not start at Pentecost, then when? We are not told exactly but it could not have had its beginning before Paul's conversion in Acts 9. He is a likely candidate for being the first member, being both a Jew and a Roman citizen. (Acts 22:3, 26)
This subject is important because it determines the content of the doctrine that we are to obey today. (Water baptism? Remission of sins? Receiving of the Holy Spirit? Supernatural gifts? Selling all possessions and sharing the proceeds in common? Preaching to none but the Jews only? Working to escape the Wrath to come? Enduring to the end?)


3 opmerkingen:

  1. +JoyceBelieves InJesusChrist
    Something else, 'untamed Joyce': we agree on this (well, whatta ya know?)
    : Why the church (the body of Christ) could not have begun at Pentecost http://www.av-1611.com/body_of_Christ_could_not_at_Pentecost.htm
    Hans S
    9:30 PM

    +JoyceBelieves InJesusChrist ;-)
    Hans S
    10:00 PM

    +JoyceBelieves InJesusChrist You know we disagreed on this in the past, but do you know what has made me change my mind?
    I believe the Holy Spirit will be taken away just as SUDDEN as the Holy Spirit was poured out.
    Now, this indeed happened at Pentecost, but after having read the article 'Why the church (the body of Christ) could not have begun at Pentecost' JESUS showed me that Pentecost was for the JEWS and Paul's SUDDEN conversion was the start of the Body of Christ, the MYSTERY.

    Because of the SUDDEN aspect.

    See? ;-)
    JoyceBelieves InJesusChrist
    10:27 PM

    +Hans S Paul saw the glorified Lord and at the rapture we will too.
    Hans S
    10:38 PM

    +JoyceBelieves InJesusChrist
    Yes, I agree and then I'll know everything about you and vice versa.


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